Guru Hate Mail from a “Newbie”
February 27, 2009 by Herschyf16
A short bit ago I decided to take a few minutes and check the QVM Support Email and see how things were going.
First off, I only check my personal / work emails about 2-3 times a day MAX and usually let our staff handle the responses. This frees my time to actually work. I highly recommend you do the same. Obviously if work requires it, check it as often as needed but my productivity goes through the roof when I shut it off, turn on some iTunes and just WORK!
That being said, this email was a bit of a surprise. It was a direct attack at me, my marketing products/methods and I believe the underlying theme was one of frustration and a call for help.
It could not have come at a better time. See I recorded a 75 minute interview with another marketer from Norway this morning on this exact subject. I’ll edit and release that exact recording right here on this blog next week. The topic was how can a “Newbie” ( FYI- I hate that term, I like novice or apprentice…it carries more meaning) survive and even thrive in the online world.
Watch the video above and look for the interview but here’s the BOTTOM LINE! I/WE market information products. I personally will only tell you about products from people I know, have worked with, or have used myself. It’s just who I am. As marketers we have a responsibility to ourselves to thoroughly research, investigate, and ultimately make a purchasing decision. It rests on your shoulders if you like my information, if you like who I associate with, and even if you want to be on my list. I am just one of your thousands of potential avenues to wealth.
No matter what happens in your marketing career remember this:
There are a Million Shiny Objects out there. Research and pick the ONE that best suits your current needs, Bite, and Hold on for the Ride!
All the best to each of you,
Enjoy your weekend 
Jeff “Herschy” Schwerdt
P.S. I have felt the exact same way as Jeff Q at one point in my career online so I know where he is coming from. I have also have been known to be a bit of a smart ass with emails, so sarcasm is ok in my book but over my years I learned something. Kindness and even swallowing a little pride seems to go much further.
I should probably take my own advice more often.
P.P.S. Here’s A Link to get on My List
Guru Hate Mail (Click Above to Enlarge)
Hey Jeff Herschy,
If you know that you can make money with online marketing, I challenge you to take other Jeff by the hand and show him how he can make money with your method and blog about it or give us a inside look at Jeff and Jeff at work. I believe, that if you interview from the beginning and interview him after you work with him one on one to prove to all of us, you will be gaining major trust issues that come up. This would blow you up in internet marketing for the newbies and I know you can video from start to finish, (without giving away all your secrets) you would make other Jeff eat his words. I challenge you to this. If other Jeff, does not want to participate, I would be happy to be the guinea pig for a lab.
Kioky Salazar
PS: F14′s use F16′s for shooting targets! Tomcat baby
Hello. I was reading someone elses blog and saw you on their blogroll. Would you be interested in exchanging blog roll links? If so, feel free to email me.
Thanks.
Thank You very much for taking my frustration so kindly! You are a true gentlemen and Have my utmost respect sir! But like I said, we get something from you and your friends one week that is the most awesome money maker of all time, then we get something else from you a day or two later, that is a Must-have course, mentorship, monthly continuity program and whatnot.
Those of us who complain are called Tire-kickers, lazy bastards, whiners and losers in your world.
And all I am saying is, please live up to your Sales pages, or what you all call, your Landing Pages.
Sincerely,
Jeff Q.
Jeff,
I too am on everyone’s list, but I am there by choice and have found good value in the “free stuff”. When I find principles I think apply to my online businesses I will use it. One “free” newsletter from a copywriter made a HUGE difference. My internet business has doubled each year for 3 years now, and I don’t see why it can’t keep going. My business has grown despite the recession
Twice I have bought programs–I’m just starting mass control now and love the stuff. I wish I had more money and (of course) TIME to learn even more.
So from my point of view you can keep me on your list. From almost all of you I have learned a bit here and a bit there. I’m slowly putting it together. But believe me I work at it constantly. 10 hour days are my norm.
So keep the good stuff coming!
Sylvia S
I see where you say you have done very well with the Million Dollar Licensing package. How well have you actually done and which techniques did you use?
Thanks
Dear Jeff,
That was a good move taking up that guys hate email. A lot of us newbies share his frustration – I was even thinking some of the same thoughts- these gurus get together in Vegas and work on their strategy to sell the rest of us…
It’s good that you took up this hate letter because it handled and defused a lot of paranoia that we are having.
Looks like Jeff Q wrote back with the same complaints that I think you already addressed.
Jeff Q it is marketing. I don’t like all the shiny distractions either but when I make it to the top I’m going to marketing just like everyone else. It’s necessary.
Russ
Folks, I wouldn’t even classify the original email as hate mail. Even deeper than the underlying theme of “frustration” and a “call for help” is sound logical thinking. If Product A created massive wealth for a majority of Client Group X, then why would Client Group X even want or need Product B?
Also, if Product A did what it promised, then wouldn’t the Product B sales page read: “Now that you are making $100/day, how about you pay $100/month to learn how to make $1000/day?”
What we are learning is that of the 10,000 Clients in Client Group X, a certain percentage succeeds. If it’s 100 people, that’s 1%, enough for a great testimonials page!
So, when people buy and buy, and don’t wind up in the 1%, they get frustrated, they laugh, and they may even mock.
One of the most disappointing things about IM is when one looks at the kinds of products that actually make money. I’ve seen information on loans, poker, weight loss garbage, IM, etc.
I run a real online business. A real service. Is anyone else actually running a real business? For the most part, I don’t consider making money teaching people to make money a “real” business.
I’ve joined many a program and read a whole lot of eBooks, etc. I’ve found that application of IM type marketing strategies causes HUGE negative reactions in my both of my primary niche markets.
It’s tough to purchase cookie-cutter information, and then watch the techniques tank for all your sincerity. In the process, though, if you hang in there, you will likely pull through.
Wishing you the best of success,
Dainis
Hi Jeff,
I can totally understand ‘Jeff Q’s’ position on this especially if he is of the ‘newbieish’ variety of marketer and I hope he now understands your position a bit more as a full time marketer.
When you are starting out…Who do you trust to teach you marketing?
We are all as individuals different people and do things in different ways…so to me it’s like ‘dating’ in real life.
When you are a ‘newbie’ I think you should join as many marketers lists as possible to find out what aspects of marketing you want to learn about and who you like…If you are very lucky you may come accross someone you feel you can trust straight away otherwise you have to see who else is out there who you feel you have some kind of affinity with.
Trial and error…I real life if you get it wrong there’s always split/divorce as the ultimate option…In marketing it’s a little easier in that it’s called the ‘unsubscribe button!’
Like you said in your video, you should go with a product you think can be part of your ‘business plan’…(You Do Have One Don’t You?) and then run that product to the best of your ability and not get sidetracked with the latest glitzy offering.
As a subscriber to a marketers list you have to realise that a marketer has a database of subscribers and that we do not know the individual needs of each and every person on that list…it would be impossible for us to know this, so we recommend products which ‘We Believe’ would be of use to our subscribers which do cover a lot of the many different aspects of marketing.
There are some ‘marketers’ out there who will recommend anything to make a fast buck…that’s a fact of life you have to accept that…just remove yourself from their list and you won’t get pestered again.
We also understand from emails like the one ‘Jeff Q’ sent in, that we can’t please everybody…we can only reply in a way that hopefully will explain our own situations as you rightfully did in your video and from ‘Jeff Q’s’ reply above he seems now to understand this and as he stated he respects you more now because of it.
Best wishes
Ted Newman
The guy that sent the hate mail is NOT a good candidate to work with. You need to have a positive outlook in order to succeed. It’s a fact that 90% of people who buy products never even look at them much less study them and put into action the theories. I’m not saying all products are good but MAN I run into some incredible stuff out there and have made a lot of money from the ideas I have gotten. Yes, I too get distraxcted too easily by the next shiny object – but I take responsibility for what i do and don’t do – it’s no one else fault but mine. As for gurus – it’s really not fair to lump people together – there are many that go the extra mile to help people and many of us are genuiune about wanting to help people. Me – if anyone reaches out to me I will help them – but ONLY if they have a good vibe going. If they are hateful or negative – I need to keep them out of my airspace :’> The satement about kindness is right on… you get more x with honey than with mean words
Nice job on the reply Jeff. On one hand I feel what the guy is saying, but on the other your reply hit the nail on the head. No one’s twisting this guys arm forcing him to buy this stuff, and he has no one to blame but himself if he chooses not to utilize what he has purchased. Like you said, concentrate on one process, tool, or
product and put the amount of effort (eat, drink, sleep or breathe it) until you see the results.
Anyways – I wanted to give YOU words of encouragement for you reaching out to the guy and trying to make him understand that you’re not out to get him.
I have been impressed with the way you conduct business and the type of person you are.
Take Care
Phil
to jeff and anyone else in the same boat:
the path we’re on as entrepreneurs is a difficult one. to me, that’s part of the beauty of it–anyone can do it, but not just anyone can do it, you know what i mean? you have to have a spine, and you have to be willing to suffer through these moments of frustration, anger, and failure. believe me, i know firsthand what i’m talking about, and i’ve thought of quitting a lot of times… in fact, if i hadn’t deliberately burned all my non-entrepreneurial bridges behind me at the very beginning of my adventure, i probably would have gone back to a regular job multiple times
but i’m glad i burned those bridges–the world doesn’t need another sucker in a suit, and i don’t need to spend 80% of my working hours in an office drinking coffee and getting fat and lazy.
but i digress…
the point i want to make is this: in order to start succeeding in this stuff, you have to start seeing yourself as the boss. you have to call the shots. nobody can lay out a plan for you to follow on autopilot. you have to put your own heart and soul into it. if you’re looking for explicit, step-by-step stuff that will never fail no matter how mindlessly you follow it, then you’re still thinking like an employee. employees are interchangeable. you don’t want to be one of them. you want to be the shot-caller.
and the beautiful thing is you can become a shot-caller whenever you feel like it, just by starting to call your own shots
you can definitely do this. maybe the arbitrage conspiracy isn’t for you. maybe it is, i don’t know. but if it’s not, find something you like better that plays to your strengths, and–most importantly–don’t forget the basic principles behind the arbitrage stuff. it will definitely come in handy at some point.
the successful people in this field, or in any business, are the ones who draw the right lessons from others but also know when and how to put their own spin on things. people can give you the benefit of their experience and wisdom, but you still have to make it work for you. that’s what an entrepreneur does.
hang in there. i feel your pain. lots of people do. rely on yourself and you’ll pull through okay.
mike
May I have technical question here?) In some of the videos I am getting recently there is no sound. I even made small video to demonstrate. I am curious why this happens? As for the lists and programs I think no forces anybody. For us beginners I think the main challenge is to learn how to focus and concentrate our efforts on one thing until it starts to produce positive result. And you probably “have to buy” in one or another way into success online. The faster you stop buying programs and start implement what you’ve learned already the less will be your cost)
(Editor Comment) I am not sure why you are having audio issues. It may be connection or a number of things. Best bet is to refresh or pause and let the video load and continue.
Thank you for having the courage and integrity to deal with Jeff Q’s issues. It was especially timely for me. I’m a super-newbie who just bought Mass Control and I was having massive buyer’s regret. I haven’t even started going through the program yet and I was already second guessing myself!
Your response was logical, coherent, no b.s. and for this newbie, very reassuring.
I’ve been an entrepreneur of sorts for 20 years, but I’m in health care which is very structured and pretty easy to understand from a business/ marketing perspective.Getting into all this internet stuff is a whole new ball of wax with very few rules, the structure is less obvious and its hard to tell the good guys from the not-so-good. There is, as Mike noted, a major mindset shift. There’s a lot of freedom, but a whole bunch more uncertainty.
Thank you Jeff and the rest of the respondents. Very helpful for me. Keeps me from curling up in a corner, sucking my thumb and whimpering.
T–
HI Jeff,
l see both side of this and recently started to displine my self in deleting from lists ( as the email comes in) and defined who l am going to follow.
My follow short list ;
Rich Schefern
Frank Kern
Matt Trainer
Ryan Diess
and your self
You mention free traffic and chance you share please?
regards
Martin B
(Editor Comment) Martin the QVM course is about Free Traffic generation and using videos to convert that traffic.
I share a lot of the frustration expressed by Jeff Q. I was rolling along in my construction/development business then got beat out of $500,000 when a project sponsor became insolvent, my right-hand man project manager died of a heart attach (49 years old) and then I was hospitalized. I lost EVERYTHING.
Boo Hoo! I’m 61 and my wife and I are both partially disabled and we’re 1/2 million dollars in debt. We started playing with Amazon and then moved to Fulfillment by Amazon (over 2,000 physical products). Then it struck us. This internet thing is the way for us to provide for ourselves WITHOUT dealing with tons of physical products, which we now can’t buy because of our financial situation and the overall credit situation nationally.
We too get all the emails from IM guys who do nothing other than promote the next shiny object. However, in the year that we we’ve been receiving them, we’ve begun to see who are the ones who sell value and who the hucksters are. THERE ARE NO MAGIC BUTTONS!!
We spend about $120.00 per month (total) following some of Frank Kern’s stuff as well as Niche Profit Blueprint and Niche Profit Classroom. We also love Ed Dale’s 30 Day Challenge info. None are the ABSOLUTE answer. However, we knew next to nothing about all this when we started and we now now WHAT it is that we need to do and we now know WHERE the resources are. Not only do we NOT feel that our current expenditure is a waste, we can’t wait until we can afford Mass Control and, someday, a Mastermind Group and/or Stompernet.
Why did I pick those I just mentioned? Because I took the time to sift through all the dirt to find the nuggets. We have no intention of marketing money-making info but lumping all marketers into the same pile is the same as saying that all bankers are bad or all people of one race or ethnic background are good, bad, dishonest, etc.
If you want to be your own boss, BE your own boss! Do your research. Use your brain to analyze and make the necessary decisions. Then, in the words of Frank Kern and Andy Jenkins: do SOMETHING. If it doesn’t work, perhaps YOU made the mistake. Move on.
I think what is missing in this business is transparency. there are some truly awesome stuff out there. Like Jeff pointed out Mass control is definitely the best course you could ever take. However there is a lot of bad stuff too.
I love what the boys at proofcontrol.com are doing
The good, The Bad and the Ugly of Internet marketing. I this there is already a page for you Jeff
I can see both sides….That’s my “political” approach to this
I believe the Jeff who SENT the email to Jeff S. is commenting out of frustration. Please correct me if I’m wrong Jeff (sender). The same thoughts go through my mind at times. For those of us who are easily distracted by shiny objects, it can be extremely tough to get things rollin’ in the I M world. I will say to anyone that what Jeff S is saying & selling and what many others who are successful online are saying & selling, is the truth. The “real” people out there (Jeff S. being one of them) in my opinion are selling what has worked for them and what they believe can work for others. Again, I have to stop myself at times too when I start getting the feelings that Jeff (sender) seems to be going through right now. A person tends to blame someone else for their misfortunes when you need to look in the mirror and tell yourself that YOU are ultimately in control of EVERYTHING that happens in your life PERIOD!
Keep it cranking everyone and the best of luck to all!
Bo
JeffQ …Excellent points. Luckily I got a refund on Arbitrage … and Warrior forum tells the same sad story people are losing money … Jerry West pointed out the dark side of CPA but not enough people listened. BECAUSE we are Opportunity Seekers (read, easy pray for the Frank Kerns and Mike Filsaimes out there). Instead of building a REAL business online (there are many, many, many out there … visit Internet Retailer.com and go to their conferences), Real people, building real businesses doing millions a year. Do we do that? Noooooo, instead we’re on the (Profanity Edit) mailing lists of these gurus who love nothing more than suckers on their lists. So they can sell the next thing, and then the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing. And if any of that (Profanity Edit) worked like they promise, the market would dry up. Look guys, get off the sucker lists. Seriously. Start building a real business. Sell good stuff to people. Treat them well. And they come back. There is no glory in ripping off people (Mike Filsaime kept charging my card even after cancellation, hung up on Amex investigation, and I had to get a new (Profanity Edit) Amex because of scumbags like Filsaime), and if that’s what internet marketing is, and if that is the integrity of these gurus, then we’re in deep (Profanity Edit). Luckily, there are real internet guys to look up to … people like Jeff Bezos who started on two doors as desks from Home Depot and did $14.8 billion. Now there’s a (Profanity Edit) guru to follow. Study Amazon like you study the bible and good things will happen. Don’t listen to the siren calls of the Kerns … they FEED on suckers like you. Build a real business. Don’t like what I say, listen to Seth Godin: ” There’s a tribe here, and it’s always looking for a new leader. Someone who will sell them an exclusive $1249 course, or ongoing advice and consulting or some other insight that has escaped the market leaders. The more skeptics they generate, the better they do, because the skepticism itself is part of the story that needs to be told.” DID YOU HEAR THAT? Making you believe that you don’t have the necessary tools IS PART OF THE SUCKER PITCH.
I just happened to be good at the technical aspects of marketing, and I have to say that the disgruntled marketer has a point. I was looking for something that I could set up my mom with an income or other family members, but the level of knowledge to understand all the parts to make this work is intense. They would not stand a chance in the IM world. You have to get piece parts of information from many different places and spend money you don’t have in order to get a morsal of help. I think that the Guru’s found their niche with people that can afford to shell out thousands of dollars for IM, but there is a lot of us that are scraping by. We want that dream too, but the scammers keep us down, giving us only enough information to make us hope for the Holy Grail, not attain it.
Sorry, but i won’t purchase any programs that i know that Frank Kern may be associated with. He’s too vulgar in his presentations and i don’t think i could pass any of his programs on to anyone else, and feel good about doing so. Tell him to clean up his act and i may re-consider .
Hi everyone,
I don’t have a website at the moment. I canceled all of my sites and decided to start again after about 18 months of nil results during which time I learned a great deal, much of which is referred to in the “Guru Hate Mail”.
Frankly I had formed the opinion that all of the highly prominent “Gurus” were – to say the least – WELL CONNECTED.
I have kept a database of most of the regular people who individually contact me and it confirms the close links between people who worked diligently to “earn my respect” by claiming to be anxious to help me because they know that there is a lot of misinformation circulating on the internet. Yeah, right.
I have bought numerous products from a variety of people who appeared to be very genuine and who promised a great deal. Subsequently when I saw these people participating in all of the latest launches and who obviously could be suspected of a form of insider trading I progressively became more alarmed and refused to buy anything from anyone that I was suspicious of.
The secondary reason for my concern has been the enormous fees these gurus demand for products that they know will be in demand because of the “endorsement” by so many of their cronies who admit that they socialise and meet with other gurus on a regular basis.
I see a similarity between the much despised CEO’s of major banks who knew that their banks were about to fail and found the money to pay themselves large amounts of severance pay.
The gurus are preying on uninformed consumers who may be desperate for some help. By ganging up and endorsing the concept of charging thousands of dollars for a few hours of consultation or admitting that they use outside consultants to create much of their products etc they automatically inflate the charges of the good quality contractors who know how much the gurus will make out of the products and obviously charge accordingly thereby blocking access to good contractors who might otherwise be available for negotiation with lesser operators like myself and many others.
I know this is a supply and demand factor but when the supply is reduced through collusion and buddying up with a select few operators it unfairly eliminates much of the competition for the gurus.
It seems that the clan in the USA have a huge advantage over little guys like me living far away in Australia. Many of the bonuses are only easily accessible if you live within reasonable proximity of the venues used for these lavish affairs or need to be contacted at considerable expense by international calls.
Maybe I do not know how to make affordable contact for the ever increasing popular webinars which must produce substantial income for the select team of gurus attend or are interviewed during these webinars.
I have built considerable regard for Ewen Chia who had a launch last week. He appeared to have a degree of independence and offered high quality products and useful free downloads.
Sadly his launch of his latest book (through Amazon.com) with lots of useful bonuses was impacted by a breakdown of his website. If I was true cynic I might jump to the conclusion that there is an internet mafia. Hopefully this is not the case.
The only solution is to keep working hard and become a high level operator who can rob the poor and become rich.
Regards
Bill Hann
Maybe if you guys stopped reading warrior forums and posting blogs, you’ll get somewhere on the internet. I stopped reading forums a long time ago, it’s just a bunch of whiners and maybe every now and then, you’ll find a good post. But think about it, if you spend your time with negative people(like ppl at warrior forums) who bash GURUS all day, then you’ll end up like them. Why don’t you guys make a commitment to the programs you invested in, and run a damn campaign, and learn from your mistakes. EVERYONE makes mistakes, its the best way to learn. BUT, why would you buy a program in the first place, spend all that money, and just look at it in a negative way. Why make that purchase in the first place you know. In the end, you end up pushing for a refund, when you should push yourself. BOTTOM LINE, if your an entreprenuar, and you have that mindset of wanting to succeed on the internet, than BE a REAL entreprenuar and take some blows. These programs are designed to help you learn a foundation of succeeding on the internet. Don’t forget how young the internet is, and there’s just so much opportunity. Adopt a postive mindset, stop reading forums and blogs, and make a commitment to a mentor(or GURU). And yeh call them mentors, NOT GURU’S. GURUS just have a bad title. They became sucessful on the internet for a reason you know. And it isn’t because they prey on suckers like us. Every regular marketer I’ve met, are pretty organize and REALLY smart. Do you find it a suprise that this blog post is filled with GURU Bashers, who are stuck in a rut. Thats because you guys who are in A RUT, and are looking for a group of ppl like yourselves, thats why you see more blog post by these bashers. SNAP out of IT, and look at the succesful ppl on the internet. You don’t see them running around warrior fourms or posting messages all day. Just do the DAMN THING!
interesting stuff just from these samples.Obviously everyone has different nitches where not all of them can be covered here.So perhaps you can pick up a variety of nitches with a video sample for them say each week,month or so
Hi Jeff,
I’ve been watching your progress for a little while now, and I suppose (grudgingly) that I can agree with some of the other Jeffs comments.
I remember when I started to study IM and I had all these emails arriving from everything I had signed up for – I will admit I was like a kid in a candy shop!
I remember putting up my first adsense ad and holding my breath – nothing happened! I then thought what a waste of time! Three months later I recieved my very first cheque from this adsense ad – in total I recieved (I think)$157.00 in total for $30 worth of adsense ads.
I was expecting immediate results and turned away when nothing happened
straight away.
Normally, in any other business, it can be anything from 2 – 5 years before any substantial income is made, so IM is the way to go. I think a lot of people think they can put in an hour a day, throw a few dollars around and hey presto! instant millionaire!
IM is the same as any other business – you must have the passion and drive to move forward, and above all, don’t ever give up!
I think for anyone new to marketing should step back a little bit and see the whole picture -yes YOU are a marketer, and if you could’nt hook people then you would’nt do very well!
Sorry to ramble BUT I believe you are probably one of the best out there Jeff – its all about freedom of choice!